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“Probably 30% of the guests that hop on here have some story about how they didn’t like me at first, and then they kind of did, and then they weren’t sure.”
With mutual love and respect for each other now, Molly couldn’t wait to join RevOps Therapy and share her thoughts on the latest social media sensation: quiet quitting.
According to Molly, it’s the saddest thing in the world. Why? Listen in to find out.
Hello, this is Jordan, the owner and CEO of Greaser Consulting. On this call, we have Molly coming from across the pond over in the UK. Her and I paths crossed very briefly at a recent job I did at Outreach. Molly was a ton of fun to work with and she’ll hit this later whenever you listen in, but one of the things that was legitimately true is that everybody I hopped on a call with at Outreach at the time only had good things to say about Molly when I was kind of jumping in and learning about a few things going on in the org. So very well-respected, genuinely cares about the people she works with, which is why it was really interesting for her to say she wants to talk about quiet quitting today. I thought oh, what angle is Molly going to take with this quiet quitting. And I was coming in with the expectation that we were going to talk about personal responsibility and your word and all these things and she threw me for a loop. She ended up coming in at a different angle that I hadn’t thought about before. I’m not going to spill the beans just yet, so you’re gonna have to listen in to what she has to say. But I think it’s really important. Lean in, enjoy, and welcome to the podcast.
Say you want some clarity in sales and marketing and SEP. Well, we have just the remedy: our podcast, RevOps Therapy. Yeah.
Hello, everyone, and welcome. We’ve got Molly with us today. Molly, go ahead and introduce yourself.
Hi. My name is Molly. I am from the UK. And Jordan, we met at Outreach didn’t we?
Yes, we did. Yeah, at the time, right, you were, you were an SDR manager for, was it like all of the UK? Was it EMEA? Like, what was your focus?
Yeah, well, actually, Jordan until you came along and stole my team, I actually managed the US teams as well. The SMB teams.
Yeah well, from what I understand, you were sort of like happily letting them go at the time. So this was… for anybody listening, this is like a fairly recent thing. I jumped back in at Outreach for a quick minute to help out. And evidently, I restoked tensions between the UK and the US here or something, like, what are you saying to me?
All I knew was I was managing US teams and the EMEA teams with the idea that I had a Visa going through. I was going to move to the US, “the land of the free.” Is that what you guys say? Yeah… Sorry, I forgot about the brave. And the brave. And yeah, and then my Visa didn’t go through. So they were like, maybe you should stop working till midnight. Because you know, you’re not going to move here. So why are you doing this? And I said it was a valid point. And I said, but who? Who was going to look after the team? It’s like, who’s going to look after the teams that, contrary to what you’re saying, love me so much? So so much. And they were like, Jordan, Jordan Greaser. And I was like, Who the hell? Even at Outreach, who is this guy, and I’m not gonna lie to you, I was really prepared… I don’t know if I said this to you. I was like, staunchly prepared to really dislike you. I was really, I was really defensive. You want me to say that it didn’t happen.
Actually I like, before we even get to like, let’s just keep going here like you’d like. Because I’m learning this for the first time; you, like, hated me before I walked through the door, like what, what changed?
It was kind of like that I was like a mother bear. And I had my, my American children. And I was being told that in Greece. And they said, “Outreach legend.” He was, he was at Outreach way back when, and I was like, “I don’t care, like who is this man? He’s stealing my children.” Honestly, and I was really prepared because I think I kind of I associated you with, you know, the fact that my Visa didn’t go through and I wasn’t moving to the US. And you, unfortunately, Jordan, your name was just… it was just attached to that whole disaster. And so when they said, you know, “Jordan is going to take over the teams, he’s very experienced. He’s very, you know…” Lots of compliments. I was like, “well, he can’t do what I do. No way.” And then I got on one call with you. And unfortunately, you knew the way to my heart, which is to fill me with compliments, and you were like “the teams say great things about you.” And immediately I was like, “Ah, really?”
“Oh my gosh, keep going. Is this call over already? Let’s keep… let’s do another 20 minutes.”
I’m pretty sure we spoke for like an hour. And yeah, I remember I was like, by the end, I was like, I love Jordan Greaser. I converted pretty easily, to be honest with you.
That’s good to know, it’s good to know that with those strong convictions, we can so quickly throw a couple compliments your way and you’re like, “you know what? Maybe they’re not so bad.” Well, this is, this is funny. This is news to me, so I appreciate you letting me know, the, and our audience know the true origin. Which, Molly, you’d be glad to hear that I think like, probably 30% of the guests that hop on here have some story about how they didn’t like me at first, and then they kind of did and then they weren’t sure.
What do you think you’re putting out there?
Well, that’s what I’m saying. Clearly, I need some help. Right? Maybe, maybe we should spend the time here talking about how I could… Well. So instead of talking about the brand, let’s, let’s get on task here. We wanted to talk about quiet quitting. So I think I’ve mentioned this to the listeners before that, in general, I tend to reach out to folks and say, “what’s something you’re passionate about?” And Molly says, “quiet quitting, let’s talk about it.” And I’m like, “okay, I’m not even gonna ask any more questions. I can’t wait to hear what Molly has to say about quiet quitting.” So Molly, why was quiet quitting the thing that was like, as soon as I asked you, you were immediately like, you didn’t even think about it: “quiet quitting here we go.”
Um, I think it’s not the most, like, attractive thing for people to, like, talk about, especially, like, on LinkedIn. I feel like everyone’s talking about a range of topics that, don’t get me wrong, are really important. But I was seeing… I didn’t realize that quiet quitting was a thing. And now we see it everywhere, like, is in terms of like news articles, not in terms of like people I’m having conversations with, but I was kind of observing the behavior of those around me, who, some who work in similar jobs, you know, SDR management, sales. And even people who don’t work in sales. And so many people were engaging in quiet quitting. And it just, it kind of blew my mind that, one, I feel like it has, it’s, it’s on the rise. I don’t think it’s going anywhere. I think it’s only gonna get worse. And two, I feel like people don’t really, people don’t really care. I think people know that quiet quitting. And now there’s kind of like an ownership of like, “Yeah, I’m quite quitting, and I don’t care.” And I think, I know, just as a disclaimer, I know, you say that sometimes I can be really dramatic, but I think it’s the saddest thing in the world.
Yeah, sometimes I say you can be a little dramatic. But then you say it’s the saddest statement. I wonder why that statement comes out of my mouth.
I don’t know; I misunderstood. But no, it seriously, I find it really sad. And I don’t know, I thought, I thought it’d be interesting for us to talk about, talk about why is that on the rise? But also, and I know it sounds silly, but when there’s someone in your life that you love, or you care about, or you’re mentoring, and they’re engaging in, quiet quitting, what, what are we meant to do? Like, how can, how can you help someone to get over it and out?
So let’s, let’s we’re gonna get to that. But let’s back up like three steps first, because I think that’s a great place to get to. When you think about quiet quitting, and you’re talking about it’s on the rise. And now people are starting to take some ownership almost in it, like doing it with pride. Like, do you think that stems from, like, years of feeling like the employee had no power at the hand of the corporate enterprise? And like, this is the opportunity to stick it to the man. Like, is that it? Or is it just people are just getting tired? Like, just in general, it doesn’t even have to have this big, philosophical thing behind it. It’s just, “hey, if I can make a paycheck and work less and be home more, like why wouldn’t I?”
Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s two main things, like two main reasons I see. So one is what you just said. I think, since the pandemic, people have realized that there is more to life than work. And they’ve realized that the things they were able to do with all this free time and not working such long hours and not giving so much of themselves to their job. I think they’ve thought to themselves, well, why, why they don’t want to go back to the way it was before. So I think that’s definitely like one big factor. I think the second one is kind of similar. That I think it’s, I think there was like a massive period of time where there was like a really big like glamorization of, like, I want to call it a hustle culture or like the 5am club or whatever you want to call it. I’ll, I’ll call it working ridiculously hard and burning yourself out. And that, that’s a good thing. Like people would say really proudly, “oh, I work 100-hour weeks.” And that wouldn’t be like a, “well, that’s odd. Like, why do you want that? Let’s talk about that. Like, do you have a family? Do you have friends? Like why? Why they’re not other things?” And I think that at glamorization, I think is just like, you know how it’s like. It like swings, the pendulum swings. Yeah, pendulum swings. I think it’s gone from glamorization to now people are like, “Why am I? Why am I doing all this work? And is that two-way street of like, if they’re not going to respect me, I’m not going to respect them. And I’m not, I’m not burning myself out for a job.”
So in the context, though, of you saying, hey, this might be the saddest thing in the world. I mean, we’re gonna get to that side. But you know, before we completely sort of run the bus over the topic in general, I think you’re hitting, though on an important thing of folks, all of a sudden waking up and realizing that work isn’t everything. Whenever, you… I don’t know how it works in the UK, but we’ll give a US-based thing; you meet somebody; you say, “Hey I’m Jordan.” Somebody goes, “Oh, what do you do Jordan?” “Ah, I’m a Tech Consultant.” You know, give the title, give like, it’s usually the first thing, right? Name, then title, then whatever. And so there is a part of identity that’s wrapped up into this thing. But you’re… I think you’re right, in the sense of like, COVID happens, and all of a sudden, some folks couldn’t even work. Right? Or some folks worked, but it was different. And then suddenly, I was home, so what is my identity? I am not clocking into the same place all the time. And so it seems that there might be somewhat of a healthy element behind some of this, but, but perhaps it’s just to your point of the pendulum swinging, perhaps it’s just going too far.
Yeah, no, you’re right. And I think it’s the same. I don’t think it’s, it’s not as intense here. Like I definitely think, in the US is a much… I’m not gonna say better work ethic, I’m gonna say stronger work ethic like…” You’re grinning. People in the UK, I think on as, I don’t know how to say this without insulting the entire UK population. And I think if….
You take, you take holidays for all of December and January, and then another six-week holiday in the summer, like…
Yeah, we, we live, we work. No, we work to live. We don’t live to work as a broad, as a broad, like, broadly speaking. Like, I think when I’ve, like, spoken to American-headquartered companies, and England, a British-headquartered company, so it’s definitely a difference in culture. And yeah, I mean, it is like, Brits know, stereotypically, their life isn’t work. Whereas in the US. and I kind of, I kind of, I do like it that it’s like, everyone feels a real ownership over what they do. And it’s like, they… I think it’s the American dream, right? You don’t have… no one says the England dream, the England dream is, you know, it not raining. The American dream is like, work from the ground up? I’m not going to, I’m going to stop myself because I realized I’m explaining the American dream to an American, but you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, there’s no concept of that here in England.
So how do you blend though this concept of like, okay, it’s the saddest thing in the world, but also, like, you know, maybe that’s a good thing that there’s life outside of work, but then there’s a personal responsibility of, like, “Hey, you signed up to do that.” I mean, I’ve read articles now folks that try to do two full-time jobs at once. And that’s like a form of quiet quitting as well, because they’re remote and they can kind of get away with doing both.
God, that’d be stressful. That’s like having an affair. That’s like having an affair. Like that is exhausting; that would be so emotionally draining. I’m like, I don’t know why, like, I’m shocked at that. Like, how would people, how are people managing that?
Well, that’s, that’s the, that’s the thing when you go remote, that, okay, nobody is like walking by and seeing you sitting at your desk. So if you can coordinate calendars, and you can still manage. Maybe you’re a really effective worker, maybe it’s not quiet quitting and not being productive. Maybe you’re really productive and you can do both.
I mean, I don’t know but I think that is a massive sign of like, it’s not it’s not so much like, okay, they’re working from home and they think they can do both jobs. I think to take on another job full time, and I am gonna say it’s like cheating. It’s like having an affair because you’re emotion, you’re so disrespectful to your employer. And I don’t, I don’t by the way… I don’t think, maybe I should, but the reason I think quiet quitting is so sad isn’t actually because it’s so you know, you made an agreement. And when you took this job, you were under some pretense, you know, you made an agreement of what you’re going to deliver and quiet quitting isn’t that because, as I understand it, quiet quitting is that you know, you are doing your job. I think it’s hard because you work unless you have some amazing job or, you know, your aunt in another country passes away, and all of a sudden, you have a ton of money in your bank account. You spend most of your life working and to not give your all and to not be excited and to not feel passionate and to just plodge along and wait for the weekend and wait for the evenings, I think is like, so sad, because I can’t imagine doing it. And when I see people around me doing it, and then they get used to it, it’s so lethal because why would they move jobs? Why would they change because it’s so easy to do? And I think it can happen really slowly. I don’t think it’s like a wake-up and you’re like, “I’m gonna quiet quit today, I’m gonna…”
So the angle that you’re coming through is really it’s not a personal responsibility and your duty to the corporate world. You’re coming from the standpoint of like you want to, you want to log into work, and say “hey, I enjoy what I do. And I enjoy what I’m becoming; I’m enjoying the process.” Now. You know every, every person has emotional things where you can enjoy all those things but you have a tough week, right? So it’s not like every single day, you know, it’s rainbows and butterflies and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. But the general theme is like, “hey, I’m here to do best work because I enjoy my work.”
Wait, I’m confused. I thought when we worked together, it was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Of course it was Molly.
Thank you. Yeah, that’s the thing. So for example, when we were together, like it was like, you know, it was, as it is now, it’s a tough time to be in sales. But I still would never dread going to work or logging onto my Zoom to Zoom Jordan Greaser. I would always be excited. And I would always be giving 110% of my energy, even if it didn’t always work.
So you, you hit on that topic, though, of like, what do you do when you see somebody bumping up against this? What do you do?
Oh, no, no, I was asking you what do you do?
Oh, you’re asking me.
It’s just, it’s so sad to spend your life doing something you don’t feel happy about. But how, you know if you’re mentoring someone, do you, how do you get someone out of that funk? How do you get someone out of thinking that, that’s… I think there’s a glamorization of it. Sorry, the only thing I was gonna say is how we used to glamorize hard work. I think people now glamorize quiet quitting. They’re like, “Do it. You don’t owe the corporate world anything.” And it’s like you don’t, but you owe yourself something, ya know? You owe it to yourself to enjoy your job and to push yourself to do that.
So the thing is, I don’t know if I’m, excuse me, pushing back on you here as much as just thinking about a reality of life right now. Last year, this time, every company under the sun was having talent acquisition issues. And so they were, they were throwing huge paychecks, big bonuses, you know, PTO, and everything. Right now, the job market is completely flipped. Okay. And in a flipped job market, where all the sudden there’s tech layoffs everywhere, and now suddenly, you know, suddenly, “oh, I might need to go find a job.” There’s also this whole angle of “hey, I might not love what I do. But maybe I’ve got kids, maybe I’ve got bills to pay, maybe I got whatever.” And so I just want to kind of draw a delineation between, sometimes you work because you do what you have to do, versus this concept of quiet quitting, which is like you, you do have other options, and you’re just choosing to stay in the same place.
Yes, yeah. No, I mean, of course, there are people that can’t leave, feel like they can’t leave a job because, I mean, you… It’s it… You can’t ever say yeah, everyone can always get a job that they love. I would try and be an idealist and say that you can and you should fight for that. Obviously, if you have financial commitments, and I’m not, I’m not living in a cloud, but I am thinking quite specifically and referring quite specifically to people quite early on in their careers, who don’t have as many dependents and who don’t have the harsh realities of people to support, and they’re just not feeling motivated to find a job that challenges them and pushes them.
I think that’s a good thing to clarify and now you’ll start to get into a little bit of a philosophical thing of like, what are your, what are your 20s for? And what I mean by that is, you see folks on all ends of the spectrum, you see the, see the folks in their 20s that are like, “ah, listen, I don’t need responsibility today.” And so they’re paycheck to paycheck because they’re just out having fun right? Now, they might not be in a career, they may, they may not be whatever, but they’re just kind of like living life. And then you got folks all the way on the other end of the spectrum, where, you know, they’re 20, living like they’re 50, which is to anyone who’s 50 listening, hey, listen, no offense, I’m just talking reality here. Right? But they’re living like, okay, where’s my 401K at? Like, where am I at on this side of preparation for retirement? And, okay we can’t stop and slow down. And so the, the reason I bring this whole thing up, because if you’re gonna say, well, this is really about people younger in their career, and you’re saying, “Well, how do you address quiet quitting? And whatever else?” I think the first thing that you have to think about is like what you know, like, what are your goals? Like, what are you striving for? What do you want out of life? And some folks might not know, they just need some experience. But that’s part of the mentoring side of the house, right? It’s like helping people figure out what they’re actually shooting for in life. Listen, you got like 80 years, half of them, in some regard, are like some type of working years. And so are you gonna work to live, live to work? Are you trying to, to get a house in the south of France? Right? Are you, are you trying to like, you gonna go out and busk every, every weekend. What’s that called? Know on the Piccadilly line, or whatever? Right, and have some fun with that. So I mean, I think that’s the first part, right, is helping people sort of think through, like, what do you actually want out of life? Which sounds like a hard question. Kind of is, but you can start picking off some scenarios, right?
No, I think it’s, I think it’s a huge, I think it’s, I think you’re totally right, I think it’s a huge question. I think it bleeds into someone’s whole life; it’s not just your job. If your thing, if you are quiet quitting, you need to think about like you said, where, what, what values do I have? What do I want to get out of work? If I’m comfortable spending, like you said, I mean, how many? I think, I don’t know the number. But when you look at how long of your life you spend working, it’s like, it’s like a, it’s like a quarter to a half of your life that you’re awake life, right? That you’re spending working. So I think, yeah, you need to think about what you want to get out of it. What motivates you? But I think it’s just really easy to sit in it and to let it take you over. And I do think that that’s where something like a life coach, because I don’t think a mentor can necessarily help someone if they’re in that stage where they are quiet quitting; I actually think it’s more like professional help.
Do you think it’s fear of change or lack of purpose? Or even like, potentially lack of belief that you could do more?
Oh, yeah, it’s a whole host. I mean, people that I know, it’s like, one, it’s really, they’re really scared about the climate that we’re in currently. So they’re really scared of security. And right now, they feel like they have that job security. There’s existential crisis of, yeah, I don’t like my current job but I would I really like another job? Where what other job would I get? And then there’s the insecurity one, which is probably not having the self-belief that you deserve better. It’s like, you know that quote, and it’s like, people accept the love they think they deserve. And it’s kind of similar, not in the same sense of love. Because…
I got to sit here and noodle on that quote for a little while. Yeah, that hits you right in the feels. Say that again.
People accept the love they think they deserve. So.
Getting, you’re getting real deep now, Molly.
Yeah, I know. It’s so profound. It’s from a book. It’s from a book. I think it’s Perks of Being a Wallflower. Anyway, and yeah, but I say you need, it’s really sad. I know I keep just repeating “It’s really sad.” But come on. Like if you speak to someone that you love, and you care about and it’s in your life, and you’re like, “how’s work?” and they’re like, “Yeah, fine it’s boring, whatever but it pays the bills.” Like…
How much do you think, and we’re going slightly, a slight turn on this, how much do you think this whole COVID we’re all remote has really, really taken the toll on people? And I’m going to show my cards here to help you understand my question. I feel, I believe, fundamentally, that humans are designed as social creatures. And we are better when we are together. Okay? Like even the reality is, Molly, think about our relationship, like it’s been 100% virtual over like a Zoom call, okay. But then think about those people that you’ve had relationships with over a Zoom call and then you spend one weekend with them, or like, you flew into the US, for example, when you saw them for three days, like, it accelerates the relationship, right? It deepens the bond and so some of just what I feel like is going on with people is, all of a sudden, all this separation from people you’d otherwise care about, think about, and sort of walk through life with just isn’t there. Now, that’s a little bit of a controversial statement, though, because everybody wants to work remote, at least conceptually, but it’s like this catch-22 of like, I want to work remote and just be here with my family all the time, which is good. But then I don’t really feel involved at work and feel like I’m part of the work community. And so, and that’s always the problem when you have an in-office company. And then you have remote folks on the outside saying, “Well, I don’t really feel like I’m part of that main culture,” and then you feel kind of awkward about it. So anyway, I’m sure I’m showing my cards, but I’m curious to get your thoughts.
No, I agree. I think it’s like that thing that you just said about the I’m gonna call it the affair, that having more than one job at once. I think that’s a massive emotional detachment, like to quiet quit or to… it shows that you don’t have respect for your employer. Or you feel betrayed. And that’s how you’re responding, or you don’t feel emotionally collect, emotionally connected. And I think that that’s what happens when you don’t bond. And we were speaking just before about how important it is for leaders to not be so focused… well, I was saying and you were just kind of, you know, nodding, but you got… you wanted leaders to not just be all about the processes, but to be about the people. Because I think if they were about the people… I’ll ask you a question, Jordan: you’ve got a team?
Yes. Yes, I do.
And if one of them was quiet quitting, because those… see the word is “quiet.” So don’t say; it’s quiet. So what do you think the likelihood is that you would know if someone’s doing the work they’re meant to, but that’s it. And they’re quiet quitting. So, you know, quiet quitting, it’s definition isn’t you’re not behaving badly. You’re not being rude to your employer. You’re just not giving 110%. You are doing the bare basics of the job required by you. Do you think you will be able to notice if someone in your team quiet quit?
I like how you’re saying that quietly. The… I would say even before this term was used, I’ve absolutely… oh, by the way, I’m watching a U-haul hit a… I’m looking out my window and I’m watching a U-haul hit a roof right now, by the way. So there’s, there’s a… what’s a U-haul for the UK? This is a moving truck. I literally just watched a moving truck smash into a roof. So anyway…
Are you going to run over and write a note on the roof and leave it?
Right now, it’s backing up. And looks like it’s just going to drive off into the… oh, this is interesting. Okay. I have other folks on my team looking at it right now. I’m going to answer your question. So now that we’ve digressed for a long period of time, the… What’s that?
I think you’re stalling. There is no van.
There is no van. Yeah, I don’t know how to answer this. The scoop there is before this was even like a popular term. I know I’ve had conversations with folks. It’s like, “listen, you’re doing the work. You’re hitting the number.” But I think the way I would say it is “you’re going through the motions.” And so the question that I have for you and again, I’ve had this conversation: “Is, is this like, you know what, there’s just a lot going on at home right now? Or maybe there’s other things that are occupying your mind and you just need a season to go through the motions. Like, fine, go through the motions for a little while, or is this like you’re kind of checked out? Like you and I both know this really isn’t for you and you need to go find purpose and passion somewhere else.” So I’ve had that conversation. And I do think there are seasons of life where, hey, if you want to coast, a little at work coast a little at work, right. If you want to do… but what’s the general theme? And I think that’s, that’s an important piece.
Yeah. But would you have that conversation with someone who was hitting their numbers? Would you really say to them, you know, go find your passion?
Man Molly, more times than I can count, I have. So when I’ve gotten… when I’ve done one-on-ones, so you can see I’m the people leader, and I’ve been saying this is good or bad, right? You need both sides of the brain to run a good business. I’ve had conversations, actually, most of my one-on-ones have been less about work, and more just about like, how are you doing as a human? And as we get into that, and I think, Molly, you might even, you might even relate to that. Right? Whenever you and I, our paths intersected for what like six weeks? Like how often did we talk about work in the sense of really strategic versus like, how are you doing as a person? Right?
Yeah. We, we, we spoke about absolutely nothing to do with work. Oh, just more. Yeah. How I was doing. You were very helpful in terms of just normally what would actually happen. Jordan, if we’re honest, is we would get on a call, I would speak at you; I’d have a rant at you about something very irrelevant, and probably very minor, which would not be dramatic at all. And then at the very end, you’d say “Molly, do you want me to suggest something? Do you want me to do something? Or do you want me to do absolutely nothing and just sit here and say, ‘I hear you’?” And what, what did I always say?
I just needed to be heard. I just needed to… Right? So I listen… I don’t know. I don’t know what nice bow we just left at the uncap of this podcast. But we’ve come right up at time. Molly, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, if they’re thinking about calling quiet quitting, and they want to speak at you. How do they get a hold of you, Molly?
Oh my God. Drop into… drop into my LinkedIn DMs. I… Yeah, I know, I know the feeling. I, I know the feeling. I know. I’ve seen people around me. And I know what it’s like to just want to talk at someone and be told you’re not crazy. But the answer isn’t to quiet quit and what are your actual options? So yeah, LinkedIn.
All right, Molly, hey, thanks for coming on today. I’ve always enjoyed chatting with you believe it or not. So anyway, thanks for coming today.
Hot dog. That was a great episode. Thanks for listening. If you want to learn more about Greaser Consulting or any information you heard on today’s episode, visit us online at www.greaserconsulting.com. Be sure to click the Follow button and the bell icon to be notified on the latest here at RevOps Therapy. Thanks and see you real soon.