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How much automation is too much automation? Is too much automation possible?
What if automation replaces jobs? There’s an interesting story about candlemakers and the sun that might impact your opinion on this one.
Founder and CEO of Greaser Consulting, Jordan Greaser, and Nate Roybal, Senior Account Executive at Syncari, tackle these subjects, as well as whether it’s better to individually solve small problems in an org or buy broad solutions to solve broad problems.
Hi everyone this is Jordan, the owner and CEO of Greaser Consulting. On today’s episode, we have Nate who’s coming from Syncari. It’s an integration tool that just works on ensuring that your data has free flow between multiple different systems. And I’ve just really enjoyed over the past like year, year and a half that I’ve gotten to know this guy talking through sort of the future of automation and concepts of Best In Breed versus platforms versus, you know, what can you integrate? Should you integrate, should CRM even exist anymore? And so in this call, we dive into all of those different topics. And listen, he is a sales guy; he does sell these things. However, I have just generally enjoyed, like, diving deep into the weeds, like down the rabbit hole of everything that he has to discuss in this vein. And, and certainly, if you have any questions afterward, reach out to him. I’m sure he’d be happy to talk to you. But even just from a, like awareness of the space, what’s going on over there. I’ve always loved the conversations; you may too; lean into this podcast; you’re going to enjoy.
Say you want some clarity in sales and marketing and SEP? Well, we have just the remedy: our podcast, RevOps Therapy. Yeah.
Hi, everyone, this is Jordan. I’ve got my friend Nate with me here. Nate, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself?
I’m Nate Roybal; I sell products. Mostly that means I talk to people, and maybe they liked me enough to buy something from me.
Well, maybe they like you enough. Man, you’re like the social media, Meme King. I can, I can certainly guarantee that every day that I log on to LinkedIn, I’m gonna get some meme from you. And you’ve got this like, community that you’re building around you which I think… Right? Is that, is that how we first met, or like, or am I like mixing the signals here on how we first connected?
Yeah, I think you’re mixing, you’re mixing, but it’s okay. So we definitely met when I was at Workato as a partner manager, and we got introduced from someone who you used to work with at Outreach. Right? So we, hopefully, we’re looking to work with you. I don’t think we ever got the chance to and, of course, a lot.
So I’ve just been an avid meme follower ever since.
An avid meme follower, and I’ve been an avid Greaser follower ever since, right?
Well, you talk about Workato. But today you’re at, you’re at Syncari, which is, you know, why don’t just for anybody listening like, like, what problem these tools: Workato, Syncari, like this vein that you’re in, like, what do they actually solve?
Yeah. And that’s a very nebulous question. So…
Which is exactly why I asked it; I can’t wait to hear the answer. Make a difficult question simple. Come on.
There we go. So Workato, Syncari, similar but different. Workato is trying to solve mostly tactical workflow problems. So hey, I’ve got a couple systems; I need to move data between them in a linear way. And that will help me drive sales activities or marketing activities, things like that. Syncari is more of a customer 360 engine, so kind of make every system up-to-date with the same data set, and then go automate. Right, so a little bit different approach than a Workato who’s kind of working on a, you know, linear approach, where we’re more of like a hub-and-spoke model, if that means anything to anybody listening.
So, essentially, and we talked about this a little bit before we hit record, you know, one of the problems, you know, I certainly know this, like when I work with clients that are trying to work between marketing automation and CRM and Outreach, and oh, my goodness, we’ve got BI in the background and all this stuff flying like, like, who owns what field when, where and why. And so I guess the first question to ask you is, whenever you have folks that are sort of working in this ecosystem with some of the solutions that you’ve worked with, like, is that a problem? Who owns what field when, where, and why? Or is it like, they’re like these solutions just solve it; you don’t gotta worry about it. Everybody can just play. This is like the Wild West, and it’s all just going to work.
That’s actually a really interesting topic. Because, because I think we’re at this interesting stage in the business world, especially in the tech world, where things seem to move a little faster, right? IT has kind of become a bad word to a lot of people. And with that, right, we’ve seen the rise of things like marketing ops tech folks, right? People that are, are kind of between marketing ops and like, you know, marketing ops analytics or revenue operations or financial operations or finance data people, right? Go to the really big orgs, and those are actually broken out into multiple roles as well. And it’s because like, one, IT has found a need to kind of embed themselves in each of these teams so they can be closer and more agile and more responsive. But also, there’s kind of this like changing of the guard, that’s happening with a lot of companies where people don’t want to be seen as you know, stodgy IT. So it, it ends up that a lot of times there is no one owner; there is no one person that both has budget, can see the breadth of the problem, but then can also go out and solve it, right? And emerging, I think, is this RevOps or Data Ops team that will kind of be asked to solve this. Workato focused typically on a Head of Business Systems role, right, which was a role that they’ve kind of identified for this person. It’s still up in the air, right? So a lot of times when we do deals, integration, automation, or data stuff, got to involve a lot of executives, a lot of stakeholders, and then you still have to really, really make sure that you are getting the right operators involved that are actually gonna go out and be successful building and maintaining the systems.
So at the end of the day, what you’re telling me is, we’re not just seeing… and you could tell me if I’m wrong here, but the way that I would think about what you’re talking about, like your your integrators, but you might fight back on me, right, because I’m learning from you today on some of this. But with the rise of the quote-unquote, integrators, we’re also seeing the, and we see this on LinkedIn everywhere, right? Like, there’s a RevOps motion, RevOps motion. And so you’re saying this sort of system availability is also creating the, the sort of job role that needs to facilitate it? Is it the chicken? Is it the egg?
Exactly. Right. Yeah, I think it’s a little bit, it’s a little bit of that. And then it’s also a little bit of the no-code to write. So like, everybody’s trying to make solutions more easy to use, more easy to adopt. And that, of course, causes, well, difficulty complexity, and then you got to change up the way that you’re architecting business people to own it. So all easy stuff, of course. But you know, what? Yeah, no big deal. Which is, which is the I think the, the nuances as we go into, like, kind of this next phase, I don’t know if you want to call web 3.0, or whatever you want to call it. But, you know, we’re moving to a place where even the least technical person in a business setting has to be fairly dangerous on some of these solutions if they want to be effective, in in at least a lot of the smaller businesses and the fast markets that I typically work in.
So when you’re working with these people, who’s more territorial, like if let’s, let’s just pretend like RevOps doesn’t exist in the org? Yeah. Which is, by the way, like the vast majority of all organizations, that marketing ops, sales ops, you know, some BI team or whatever else, it’s not centralized. Who’s more territorial: marketing or sales?
Sales, for sure. Sales all day, sales always… No sales always wants, like their stuff in the right way. Right? It depends. It depends, right? Sales is okay with a little bit of error and a little bit of nuance. Marketing wants things to be correct. But marketing is also less worried about being timely, right? So marketing can be more reactive. They can kind of be slower to analyze campaigns, things like that, where sales, I want to know instantly if my customer’s using more of our product, or if they’ve opened more tickets, or if they haven’t paid us or if they signed with new users, right, I can go upsell them, right? So that’s the kind of stuff that I want to be able to be reactive on very quickly, right, which is why go-to-market automations is so interesting to me, right? It allows us to, you know, map our customer journey better. It allows us to work against different stages of the customer journey better. And it allows us to, you know, hopefully create a better customer experience, but also create more loyal customers that buy more from us, right?
So essentially, sales is more territorial because they’re more interest… They’re more sort of anal retentive on making sure it’s right right now. Is that right? Or is that wrong?
Yeah. Timely, timely. Yeah, I would say timely.
Timely? Ah, okay. Yeah, that’s a nice way to say…
Yeah, that’s a nice word, right? I would think like, but but the reality is, right, the IT guys, and the data guys are the ones that are the most territorial, hands down, right? They don’t want things connecting to their systems; they don’t want things that are no code, especially because they don’t, they’re not able to get inside and really see the nuances of what’s happening to the way that they’re used to. And no matter how much you can show them that the functionality is mirrored and talk about, you know, the, the extrapolation of some of these functions into a nice GUI, right? The, it’s just it’s still hard, it’s still hard for them. And right there, maybe it’s some, some worry about jobs and things like that too; I don’t know.
Listen to you like, as you’re giving the answer talking about worried about jobs; you’re pouring the coffee; you know, you’re just taking it casual today. So it’s interesting, though you talk about worried about jobs. That’s been the, let me just like, give an Outreach example. In the early days, it’s far less this way today. But in the early days of us, like pitching Outreach to people, there was a huge blowback of folks that would say, “Well, no, I’m not bringing that on.” And we’d say “Why? It’s gonna make you way more productive.” And they’d say, “No, it’s going to replace my job.” I’m gonna, we’re like, “No, like, do you like making, like sending this, like, copy-pasting the same email template 1000 times that, you know, you’re gonna like, say, ‘hey, like, did you catch this email?’ ‘What do you think about this quote?’ You know, like, do you want to do that? Or could you let the system do it so you can have more conversations?” The reality is, it didn’t take away anyone’s job; it just like, removed some of the administrative burden. Now, there’s a whole other commentary on like, did it make it a whole lot easier to do some really stupid things in your workflow? Yes, it did. Okay, that’s a conversation for a different day. But it didn’t take away the jobs. So I’m interested to hear like, here we are, in, you know, sort of a different subset of systems and tools and whatever. And we have this idea that like automation will replace the person.
And I think, I think I’d be doing a disservice if I said, there’s not a time and place when typical or standard or traditional jobs might be replaced, right? More like what you’re saying, though, is, my hope is that these are not the jobs that people are excited to do on a daily basis; they are lift and shift, “hey, let me grab this CSV from one system and move it over another, copy a couple fields, or I need to go look in 10 places to figure out how my customer is doing, are they healthy? Are they not healthy, everything like that.” And that is something somebody is doing today. But at the same time, could that person who is intelligent enough to be working with data and making decisions off of data and analyzing data actually be more impactful if they were realigned to other sets of the business? Probably. Right? I think there’s also a piece about being a good steward here, and like understanding that people’s lives are at stake in some cases, and you have to almost guide your customers, prospects, people in the market to approach this correctly. And incorrectly means not, you know, going out and trying to replace people’s jobs intentionally, going out and trying to solve business problems that people are either not able to solve today, or they’re, you know, solving by just throwing human labor at it. And it’s, it’s, again, not something people want to be doing on a day-to-day basis, I don’t think.
What’s the… there’s the old economics story, and I’m gonna like butcher this story. But it’s the, it’s the like, candlemaker from the 1600s. You remember, did you ever, did you ever hear this story about the? It’s like the candlemaker story, which I’m in the process of doing. But essentially, the idea was that the candlemaking industry was providing light throughout the city; in providing light throughout the city, they needed to keep… it did this fundamental service for the city, but at the exact same time, you know, there were jobs a plenty. As a result, like this was the main source of income for people; it was super important. Well, the problem was one day they woke up, and there was this resource that didn’t exist previously, that exists all of a sudden, and that resource was bringing light to the entire town, and it was bringing it easier and, and better, and all kinds of things, and they just couldn’t figure out like, “What do we do? Like, this resource is better; it’s free, it’s cheap. It’s free, it does a better job with light, it’s healthy, we’re not breathing in fumes,” whatever. “But at the same time, we’re going to lose the economy if like, we let this go.” So the townspeople or all of England, whatever they get together, and they decide that the ultimate solution is to, is to destroy this resource. And so ultimately, they they, they put an assault on the sun, right? So we’re gonna take out the sun, that resource was the sun so that we can continue to make our candles. And so you know, the moral of this economic story is like, you which by the way, I think there’s a Simpsons episode as well that like, makes fun of that. So you should Google it and look it up.
I’ll have to, I’ll have to consume it like that.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, I’ll bring it to your level, Nate. Right?
Yeah, that’s more sales guy speed. There ya go, right, exactly.
But anyway, that like the point is, like, whenever there’s a better, greater resource that in some ways is more beneficial to just the consumer, what do you, what do you do about the idea from a sort of moral perspective of the provider? And so what I’m hearing you talk a little bit about here is like, you know, you teeter on that line? Well, yeah, the reality is like, we’re going to simplify some of these motions for you, which may make some actions redundant. Okay, so do we blot out the sun? Or do we, do we continue and continue to produce candles? Or do we allow the sun to rise today?
Yeah, I, you know, I love being equated to the sun, anything I’m selling, right, as that necessary, right? No, I appreciate I appreciate it. But ya know, I agree with you, right? I think like, one customer in particular, I can think of right. They had a, a product team and a RevOps leader; RevOps leader has to wait for data around what their customers are using, from the product team, product person runs SQL queries on a couple, couple times a week, spends time cleaning up the reports, deduplicating and figuring everything out. And then she goes and kind of, you know, hands it technically over Slack, right? A CSV to the RevOps leader who then has to import it against Salesforce, and make sure that it all goes in correctly. If you ask me, that sounds awful. It sounds error-prone. And it sounds like something no human would want to do, right? But at the same time, someone is spending 6, 10, maybe more hours a week on that, right? That’s, that’s a lot across multiple teams, right? So long term, right? If they go scale, you know, 10 times the size, right? 10 hours a week turns into 100 hours a week, which is easily two people’s jobs, right, that they’re now not hiring for. So, yeah, I mean, I think there is that fear, right? But yeah, the goal is that hopefully, those people are now doing stuff that they are actually making much more of an impact than lifting and shifting data, and using their brains.
I’m gonna play devil’s advocate for a second; there’s a couple scenarios that I’ve come across. And I’m not even gonna say whether I agree or disagree with them. But the companies that I’ve worked with have specifically said, this specific tool that we’re using, we want to keep it in a silo, like we actually don’t want the data to mix over here. So like, when you hear that phrase, because again, like you’re so engrossed in this world of like, integration and free flowing of data and learning and it needs to be clean…
You make it sound like the 60s: hippie time, you flower child with your data and free flow and stuff. Data madness.
Yeah. Make data not war is that your new slogan? Yeah. Do you? Do you ever see a scenario where you’re like the silo’s okay, like even you with your disposition? You’re like, yeah, go ahead and silo it; I don’t care.
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there’s a place for that. In complete silo, maybe not, right? Like, I think that there is, there is definitely a good reason to at least partially silo datasets, right? So like, let’s say you bought a company and you are acquired, you’re acquiring a company; they’ve got a whole set of applications that you need the data from, but you don’t want to give it back to them, right? So you need you need to be able to get certain pieces of data from and maybe the only thing you want to get back to them is, hey, if they open an opportunity with someone that was already your customer, now you want to know, because you can help drive revenue for them, right? So that’s immediate ROI and revenue, right? But other than that, you don’t want to share data. And being able to kind of granularly they decide, “hey, when do I share data? What happens when I share that data? And what action does that drive in my customers or my reps or whatever?” That’s when this stuff becomes really powerful. So being able to decide, “hey, maybe it’ll be a silo around these specific things, but around these two or three things that we can drive immediate value for, or that we can do something with, let’s do that,” right? And that’s kind of really hard to do with native integrations or even billing them yourself, because they break a lot and needs always change.
Do you find that as the more tools that are integrated through some of these systems, the less data you’re requiring people to capture within the individual tool? So let me give you an example of what I’m talking about: Everybody has gone into Salesforce and created a Salesforce opportunity, and then you hit save and then you get that like ridiculous error that’s like, this has a dependency; you didn’t fill out this; you’ve got these 10 fields; you gotta… you’re just, like, “oh, good lord, like this is killing me,” right? The reason I bring that up, though, is you’re only as… your data moving and free flowing and all this kind of stuff is only as good as the data that’s put in. But the more data you have to put in, the more reps are just like speeding through it. And so like, I guess I’m asking two questions here. Question one is, do you tend to see cleaner data sets whenever less is required? And number two, like from reps specifically. And number two, do you see a world where the more tools that are integrated together, like teams are having to decide to like to have less data in each tool even be inputted?
Yeah, yeah, I think it’s not just the data; it’s actually the process too, right? So if I’m a rep, right, and I have to enter four or five systems to take an action, right, so I have to go in Salesforce and see what’s happened to my customer. And then I have to go get a Gainsight report to see what their how their health is. And then I have to go to Outreach to drop them in a cadence, ping finance to understand that they paid us and, you know, all that kind of stuff…
Just so you know, Nate, you just, you just broke the cardinal rule of sales engagement. You called an Outreach sequence, a cadence, which is SalesLoft. That’s like, listen, you just infuriated all Outreachers and all Saleslofters on the exact same call.
Good, good. Maybe they’ll listen to it. So yeah, I think, I think that like in terms of getting reps the right data, that’s, that’s the key, right? So how do I put the data that my reps can take action on and then drive action against that in a place where they can do it, and it’s simple, and they can keep going, right? The problem with today is, you have all these apps, like you said, right, and reps don’t know where to go; marketing teams, you know, only have access to certain datasets; customers success teams have a different data set. Right? And there’s some kind of sharing, right? So there’s this whole approach on the, on the modern data stack, where, hey, I’m going to take all this and I’m going to drive insights against it, but it still doesn’t drive action. Right. So I think what we’re moving toward is yes, like, a place where we can create some kind of single pane of glass for each user, that they can kind of take most of their actions or get most of the understandings they need from there. And the same thing with process, right, so if you’re building automations and customizations in each of these applications, you’re, you’re kind of at the behest of each application and the owner of that application to keep that running in the correct way. Right? So if I plug into Salesforce, and you got Apex running, and it breaks, right, well, I don’t own in Salesforce, what happens, right? Then I gotta go pick my Salesforce guy, and they, they got to fix it or do whatever. But if I can manage a lot of these processes, roll ups, competent, like merging datasets, help customer health scores, enrichment, all that stuff, I can manage it centrally, against a common data model that I can then, you know, push back into systems against their data model. It becomes really, really powerful and kind of takes away a lot of the impetus around these apps and a lot of the noise in these apps too, right? So if you have to go and plug in every single thing into Salesforce, for instance, you get, you know, a million fields, and it is poorly maintained. And you know, of course, no one can maintain that. It’s a monolith.
So I appreciate you leading me here. Because you know, every time I talk with you, I always go to the same place. And I just, like, I can’t help myself. Like these Workatos, Syncaris, like this whole sort of integrator world, like is there a world where they become more important than CRM, or replace the need for a CRM? And listen you had to know this question was coming.
I love it. It’s, yeah, I, I think maybe, right? There’s this… using something like Syncari or some of these tools, you can kind of almost turn a lot of these applications into simply the UI, right? You’re not using a lot of the functionality, maybe some of the native functionality around Opportunity Management and reporting. But you’re not using a lot of like the flow or like a lot of these, you know, AppExchange apps, or the, the roll-ups or all these additional pieces. And that’s actually a good thing, right? You can kind of centralize costs; you can normalize training; you can build like a central repository of standards, right? I think that possibly, right? It depends on what you’re trying to get out of a CRM; I think CRMs at the same time, are moving this direction, right? So if you look at Salesforce; they acquired MuleSoft, right? They acquired Slack; they just acquired Troops, right? So they’re trying to figure out okay, how do I… if the world is moving this way, how do I enter data from other places and still get it into Salesforce so people have to use Salesforce, right? And how do I connect everything to Salesforce to make it a source of truth and make it the one-stop shop, right? So the other part of that is like, “Hey, let’s go get Marketing Cloud and Pardot. And, and all these kinds of additional add-ons that now we have a Salesforce ecosystem. Guess what, if you buy the Salesforce ecosystem instead going and buying, you know, Zendesk for support or HubSpot for marketing, right? Well, now you’re going to be perfect, and the world will be hunky dory.” Reality is, right, people still have to go by all the deduplication tools; they have to build a bunch of Apex and hire a bunch of managers to own all that stuff. But yes, I do think I do think that it’s a potential possibility, Jordan.
Yes, you think it’s a potential possibility? So what like what I’m hearing is, what was that Dumb and Dumber scene when… “Not in a million years,” and he says, “So. So you, you’re telling me there’s a chance, there’s a chance?”
Do you think there’s a chance? I really do. I mean, it kind of comes down to, “Hey, am I building? Am I able to build software that is customizable by each business that does not put a burden on them?” Right? And I think that the world is moving in that direction. So if you go like, you see applications like QuickBase, they’re all even Salesforce.com, right, you can build apps on top of it. Everybody’s trying to get to that place. Today, it’s almost too much of a burden for a lot of application, or for a lot of companies to do that. But I mean, if you look in, in the markets that are not software, that happens a lot. I remember, I used to sell telecom equipment, right, I worked for this company called Gray Bar Electric. And I remember talking to them, and they’re like, “Yeah, we just bought Oracle custom-built CRM for us. And at $139 million.” And I’m like, “Right. Cool. That’s phenomenal.” Right? So somebody out there is custom-building these applications just for the individual business needs still.
Could you imagine being the sales rep on that? Like, you know, let’s say, let’s just say like 6% commission rate, okay, like 6%. Right? $139 million deal, and I got a 6% commission rate, like, “Thank you. I’ll see you later. I’m retiring for the rest of eternity.” But anyway, I’m sorry, I cut you off.
But no, no, I think I mean, I think it’s like, we’re almost coming full circle, right? Because if you look like let’s say 50 years ago, right to like these business machines that would be built, purpose-built for each of these companies, right? And then, you know, we’d have like IBM coming in and installing, like, an overarching like everything for these companies, which IBM everything right, and then maybe like Dell came in, but it was still like Windows, everything right? And we’re kind of moving to like, okay, best of breed, and like we’ve been talking about best of breed for like the last 10 or 15 years, right? But I think we’re actually moving to a place where either best of breed is going to be completely function, it’s going to be able to completely function with each other in a way that’s seamless, or someone’s going to kind of figure out, you know, either one app to kind of rule them all, right, which is probably not realistic. But there’s got to be some kind of thing in between. Syncari might be that thing too. Who knows?
Sales plug, there you go, you got it in. Hey, man, why not go for it all day long? Even again, I can’t, listen, so my experience’s in Outreach. So that’s my lens, right? So I started that you could send a couple emails. And then the next thing you know, they had a dialer. And then the next thing you know, they’re getting into recording and coaching in some way. Then the next thing… now they got this Outreach Kaia, which is like, it’s kind of like a Gong, but a little different. And then, and then the next thing down, they’re like, they have Success Plans are getting into forecasting, they’ve got Commit; they’ve got… and so to your point of this, like, one-size-fits-all solution, like there’s a world; now all they need to do is start doing marketing emails. And then next thing you know, like, they’ve got the marketing to sales funnel. Do you know what I’m saying?
You mean, you mean HubSpot?
That’s basically what HubSpot has built, right? They can do the sales, the marketing, the Salesforce now, right?
And they have their CRM side in it and all these things. Yeah. So that’s, that’s what I’m saying though, like, like, so you’re talking about HubSpot. They’ve been doing that for a while; Outreach is kind of growing into that. HubSpot, obviously, came from the marketing side, and they’re growing into sales, and Outreach is over here growing into marketing, right? In some regard, at least, that’s going to be my hypothesis, right? Yes. Why wouldn’t it… so I certainly can hear what you’re saying is that tools, in general, are trying to, like, they’re all trying to capture a much bigger space. But I think the underlying thing is well, how much can you capture a bigger space well before you just need the best and breed, which has got best in breed, like why not do best in breed if they can integrate beautifully, right? Like, you can only do so much in one organization, right?
Yeah, exactly. And that’s what, that’s what becomes the challenge as well as the, the interesting part, right? It’s like, okay, how do people actually want to do this? Right? Do they want to turn this into an operating system for their business? Or is it gonna be, you know, each department wants to turn their system into a source of truth. So, hey, I’ve got a guy who, you know, owns Marketo, specifically, right? And he can’t touch anything else, right? So he just wants his Marketo data to be perfect. He doesn’t care about anything else, right? And like, he just can’t solve that, because he doesn’t have all these others, that he doesn’t have access to all these other things that are touching it. So I think like there’s like this, this kind of interesting motion on both sides, where some people, you know, are trying to solve very small problems. And they go by apps to do that, to solve each problem. And then there’s other people that are going out and either buying broad solutions or building them themselves and trying to solve broad problems across the org. And it’ll be interesting to see which one kind of wins out and maybe, maybe neither, right? Maybe it just goes for, with both.
And on that cliffhanger, we are at time for today, Mr. Nate, so you’ve left everybody with this like, “oh my gosh, what’s the answer Nate?” So they’re gonna have to reach out. What’s the best way for them to reach out to you?
I would say go on LinkedIn. Check out my memes. Because I love sharing memes. But Nate Roybal… you can definitely ping me firstname.lastname@example.org anytime you want.
All right, well, hey, thanks for coming on today. For everybody listening, thanks for tuning in. And we’re gonna catch you in the next episode. See ya.
Hot dog. That was a great episode. Thanks for listening. If you want to learn more about Greaser Consulting or any information you heard on today’s episode, visit us online at www.greaserconsulting.com. Be sure to click the Follow button and the bell icon to be notified on the latest here at RevOps Therapy. Thanks and see you real soon.