Avoiding SDR Burnout and Retaining Talent with Brooke Bachesta

Brooke Bachesta, Revenue Enablement Manager for Global XDR Teams at Outreach, joins Jordan Greaser to discuss attracting and retaining SDR talent.
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Show notes

“My armchair opinion is that when everybody moved home you didn’t have the fun office time, didn’t have the shooting the breeze conversations in the hallways or B.S.ing before and after a meeting started; it was just like work all the time. And so you lost like the warm fuzzies. 

“And then the focus comes to the tangible things, which is how fast am I going to get promoted? And how much are you going to pay me? Which are important parts of working? 

“I think most people work because like, you know, we work to make a living and not because like I just love getting up at 5am every morning and working all day. I do like my job. But that’s an important part of it. But I think when we all left and went home, it became easier to focus on that stuff.” – Brooke Bachesta, Revenue Enablement Manager for Global XDR Teams at Outreach.

Today’s job market is unlike any we’ve seen. RevOps Therapist Jordan Greaser, CEO of Greaser Consulting, and Bachesta discuss attracting and retaining talent, especially in regards to SDRs, in today’s market. Their discovery is no secret: being honest and listening go a long way.

Jordan  00:00

Hello, this is Jordan, the CEO and owner of Greaser Consulting. In this episode, I spoke with Brooke Bachesta, from Outreach, around the concept of rep attrition, keeping hold of those valuable reps within your organization. Today, it’s just madness how the market is working that people are hopping jobs so quickly; salaries are inflating, and there’s just been this massive shift in the job market from this place where the company sort of dictates what happens to now many of the employees are saying, “well, no, if you want to keep me, this is how it has to go.” Brooke works on the enablement side of the house. She comes from a Sales Development Manager side but is now in enablement. And we talked through this concept of who really owns keeping that attrition rate low: is that the manager? Does enablement’s training and development work? And she hits on a really interesting topic that often it’s the manager that is thinking about the here and now: someone has a bad day, they’re going through something, and they’re working through that item sort of one on one. Whereas enablement is thinking about problems not really in the right now, but over the long horizon. And so her take on limiting rep attrition is just pretty interesting, because it’s not that typical manager look down on it. It’s somebody who’s coming in from an enablement of the team as a whole and thinking from this concept. So I hope you enjoyed today’s episode; it was a lot of fun for me to sit down and talk with Brooke. It’s been a minute. So go ahead and enjoy.

Intro Jingle

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Hello, everyone. This is Jordan, the owner of Greaser Consulting, and I’m here with Brooke to talk about rep retention, which is the top of everyone’s mind right now. Brooke, why don’t you go ahead, introduce yourself; you know, give your bio, anything that you think is pertinent. And then we’re gonna jump into this and have some fun. 

Brooke 02:23

Cool. Well, my name is Brooke Bachesta. I lead revenue enablement for the XDR organization at Outreach. If you haven’t heard that term, it’s because we made it up; it’s just to combine the outbound SDRs and the inbound MDRs. So my job is to help onboard, coach, train up, you know, make sure people are using their tech stack for all the folks on the sales development and market development teams. I started my career as an SDR; I did it twice. I’ve been an Account Executive but an SDR Manager twice, one of which times was at Outreach and actually had some brief crossover with Jordan, before we moved on to a different team. And yeah, now I’m in enablement. So I just can’t get away from the SDR team. I like it too much.

Jordan  03:03

Yeah, I actually, I know we’re talking about rep retention here. So I’m gonna push you on your own story just a little bit. I remember when you said I switched teams, then I left Outreach, but I was kind of contracted with Outreach for you know, like, it was like a year. And one of the trips back, I remember, we went for a walk right outside of the office there. The big fish building as they say. Yeah, and we talked about, like, moving from Sales Development to training and you know, what’s that transition look like? And I just remember that being like, like, I don’t know if I gave you any sage wisdom there or not. But I remember for you, specifically, that was like a, like an important season of your life where you’re figuring things out. So first off on your own side of retention, obviously, you stayed with the company, but then you switch roles. So like walk me through your own process, before we start talking about other people, your own process of, you know, what motivated you to stay, but also like, kind of wait for that job. You really wanted.

Brooke 04:10

Yeah, so I guess if I start to ramble, please cut me off. But so, when I, before I joined Outreach, I did the millennial thing, and I took time off. I was funemployed, and I moved into my van with my dog, and I drove around the country solo, and it was a very important like, you know, decide what you want to do with your life. And I was actually very convinced I was not gonna go back to tech. I was like tech is too much work. It’s so dramatic. It takes so much out of me. I’m over this, never doing it again. I know. So many ups and downs and then I ran out of money and I was like, “Well, I have skills in tech. And I heard of this company. It looks like pretty decent. I should give it a shot. Just throw put my name out there… suddenly the

Jordan  04:54

Suddenly the drama, drama’s not so bad right, when you need some money? 

Brooke 04:59

Oh yeah, yeah, when I’m eating out of the free bin at the climbing shop. It’s like it’s time to make some other decisions. That is true by the way, I did eat things out of a free bin. But anyways I found Outreach, and I was like, “okay, cool. Yeah, hey, you know, seems like a cool company, they have a cool product. I wish I had it in my last job as an SDR manager” and but also like, the people seem really nice. And that seems so contrite to say like, I want to work with nice people. But like I was, so it was so refreshing to find a company that had ethical C-level executives at the top that like, were so competent. I felt really good about them driving the boat, but also like, yeah, they’re nice people. And I could, I felt like they really had people’s back. So I was like, “alright, I’ll give this a shot.” So that’s why I started at Outreach and why I have stayed so long is a large part to do with the culture and the people that are there. And I just was reflecting on like, my development since joining Outreach; it was like a whirlwind of joining a sales company to sell sales software to salespeople to help them sales sell more, you know, I learned a lot in a short amount of time as an SDR manager. So even though I knew I didn’t want to be an SDR manager forever, or run an SDR department, which I was very clear with my boss, Steve, probably two years in I’m like, “I like my job. I’m not quitting, but I’m just letting you know that at some point, I would like to move into another role. And I’m telling you this now so that in a year or two if it pops up, no one is surprised.” And because he’s supportive and wonderful, he’s like “cool right on in the meantime, you got your day job and I like you on the team. Remember that pipeline member?” So yeah, and that was it was pretty, like when I talked to you, Jordan, that was a pretty transformative moment of like, really assessing like, “Hey, this is a great spot to be, I really feel like incredibly lucky to be somewhere that I got a nice career, I get paid well, the people are nice, the company is like doing big things. A lot of other people would kill for this position. So like, even if it’s not what you want to do forever, have some perspective around like this is an incredible life opportunity.” 

Jordan  07:07

So So ultimately you end up staying you change from SDR manager to that enablement role that you’re in. And you’re talking about how like being led by the C suite was really important for you. You were talking about culture and atmosphere and all this stuff. And then as you know, as everybody knows, there’s like a large remote workforce. Today things are different in the job market; it’s insane. Like, like there’s, there’s salaries being offered out there for everybody and like positions. And I’m like, “Well, hey, maybe I need to quit being the owner. And I need to go be an SDR somewhere” like this is like, like, you know, salaries are different; things are different. And so, like, talk to me about, like what you’re seeing there with your team? Did the same thing still apply in terms of rep retention? Or is like the dollar value the biggest thing today? Like what’s some of the things that have shifted? You know, like over this last year in the job market, and with what you’re seeing on your teams,

Brooke 08:05

I will validate that the market is bananas. Yes. Like some of the things that people are getting offered. I’m like, “wow, yeah. All right. I don’t blame you for leaving. That’s a pretty sweet offer; good for you.” But I do think that because everyone has gone remote, the focus has just shifted more so to the comp part, because let’s be honest, we all got into sales because we are somehow financially motivated. And like there’s a nice input-output.

Jordan  08:30

I don’t want to eat in the free bin anymore. It’s like one motivator.

Brooke 08:37

I’ve had woohoo deals at the grocery store to last me a while. Yeah, so I think that’s always been part of it. But like, my armchair opinion is that when everybody moved home, like, you didn’t have the fun office time, didn’t have, like, the shooting the breeze conversations in the hallways or like B.S.ing before and after a meeting started; it was just like work all the time. And so you lost like the warm fuzzies. And then the focus comes to like the tangible things, which is like how fast am I going to get promoted? And how much are you going to pay me? Which are important parts of working? I don’t think I think most people work because like, you know, we work to make a living and not because like I just love getting up at 5am every morning and working all day. I do like my job. But that’s an important part of it. But I think when we all left and went home, it became easier to focus on that stuff, which is why I know like Outreach is trying really hard to manufacture fun, and that sounds so corny, but like making sure that there is a funsie huddle at least once a week where it’s like they have a show and tell thing. I think it’s pretty cute. I don’t remember what they call it. But like every week I have a rep talk about themselves. Like here’s my little slideshow, like here’s my hobbies. Here’s what I like to do. Here’s a fun fact you might not know about me because there is no other way to get that organically when you’re just logging in to Zoom rooms.

Jordan  09:54

Well, how’s that change? I know you’re sitting in enablement today. How’s that change? Like, you used to be the sort of owner-operator of the team, right? Like, these are your folks, you’re gonna take care of them? What’s the enablement’s role in keeping reps engaged, alive, excited, you know, so to speak? Like, does that sit just with a manager? Or is enablement a big piece of that as well?

Brooke 10:21

I think it’s a huge piece of it. I think what enablement does is it provides like a repeatable process and a structure for folks so that a manager and they’re like  the managers who got an average, like, I didn’t know because I like helping people and they want to coach and support, you know, and help one on one. You can’t just have like, everybody has their own retention plan, like there has to be a system in place so that people can see it like, “oh, yeah, I’m getting trained here.” It’s not just a churn and burn job or a gig. This is a career; I get access to professional development, things that have transferable skills for my next role, whether that’s that Outreach or not. And there’s training for the managers; we’re working on that now to make sure that they have the tools necessary to have, you know, important coaching conversations with their reps, or promote them as or whatever. So I think it’s a large portion of the process. 

Jordan  11:13

Okay, so like, when you’re when you’re like, do you go and you work with your managers specifically on like, hey, there’s… retention is such a big deal right now, “hey, we have three people at risk, like what can we do to get these folks excited?” Again, are those conversations that don’t happen?

Brooke 11:28

Oh, that’s a good point. So I think, as a frontline manager, it was very much of like, who is a flight risk in this quarter that we should like focus on specifically. And in enablement? It’s looking at themes of like, “hey, if I’m tracking all the people that we hired, they seem to leave at this timeline. Generally, this is the theme of why they left.” I don’t get all the nitty-gritty details from exit interviews, but I generally get like, “okay, like, they felt that they weren’t supported, or there’s a lot of pressure or whatever it was.” I can help build programs with the managers and say, like, “hey, let’s put people into these. So it’s like, pre-objection handling that and then they can handle the one-off like you know, Suzy says she’s going to quit tomorrow, so this doesn’t happen or whatever.

Jordan  12:10

Come on. So what do you do? And you mentioned, right, like, you want to focus on somebody that you think might be a flight, right? That’s kind of the manager’s thinking. And then over to the enablement. You’re sort of programmatically thinking about this, right? Like, like, how do we push people beyond? So if we go into the focus stance, because I know you were there before? What does it mean to focus on somebody? Right, like somebody’s at risk; we need to focus on him. That means, what? You you roll out the red carpet? You tell them they’re just fantastic people; suddenly they’re getting Starbucks gift cards? I mean, like, what does that mean? I’m focusing on that on on Susie.

Brooke 12:52

Yeah, that’s a good point. So I think part of it is like making sure that you’re actually chatting with your reps, one on one, which I know our managers do all the time, all day, and figuring out like, “Okay, what’s your ‘why’ Jordan, like outside of loving to make cold calls? Why’d you pick this job? What do you want to do with it? Why are you in sales?” All those things, and being aware of like if their engagement is starting to drop. And that can be things like, if we’re going to use Sue again, Sue usually make 60 dials a day, no problem, but it’s pulling teeth together to make 58. And like her sequences seemed like she’s kind of like phone negatives, probably an indicator that she’s over this job and like looking for something else, or like something’s going on your personal life. We should check in on her. So that’s how I see like, focusing on it’s just like, looking for the little trends in your people’s behavior like something seems off. And maybe it is having a one-on-one of like, “Hey, are you burnt out? Do you need some time off and we plan for that?” If if I know that you want to get promoted to an account executive, “hey, like, here’s some things that you can work on being able to handle objections on the phones, make more dials, connect with more people” is really going to serve you in that role, like connecting it to their specific motivation. Because very rarely have I gone to somebody and said, “You got to make 60 dials, because I said so” and they said, “Sure, boss. So glad you pointed that out.”

Jordan  14:09

Thank you very much. But how much faster now like when you start to see that somebody slipping or even programmatically, instead of month 10 starting to happen in month eight, you know that like people from the moment of time that you start to see that there’s this change, and we might lose this individual? Like, what’s the runway? Is the runway six weeks to get this turned around? Or is it like we have two weeks to get this person turned around and engaged again?

Brooke 14:38

Oh, I’ve never thought about it like that. I’m like, How long does it take for somebody to just make their mind up that like I’m over this and like, this place is dead to me? I would honestly err on the suspense faster than longer. Because I think usually it’s like, you know, a couple frustrating things happen. I didn’t get paid out on my cell. I lost my account. Something’s happening. Now I’m making as many dials Now, my pipeline is lower. I would venture this is totally me pulling this out of the air. I think your two-week comment is probably accurate. Of like, that’s probably when someone’s gonna make the decision, like, I’m not happy.

Jordan  15:14

So that’s been what I’ve seen the big shift, you know, I started in the tech world in 2015. Okay, and I think COVID, like, just really accelerated this, that when I started, it was kind of like, here’s what the company wants, get on board or get out. Like, like, that was just kinda like the and that was everywhere. Like, I’m not picking on any one company, it was like, you either get in line, or you gonna find somewhere else to work right? Now, it’s almost like the exact reverse is happening, where the job market so crazy that people can go to the company and say, “Well, you either align to what I want, or I’m going to get out of here.” And suddenly the company’s like, “oh, well, boy, like, hold on a second.” I’m like, am I often thinking this? Or is this something that you’re seeing out there as well?

Brooke 16:03

I think it’s totally accurate of like the workforce now, which a large part of that, you know, there’s a lot of Gen Z folks are (people may use the term high maintenance); I think it’s just they’re more well-informed of like, hey, like, there’s a plethora of information for me to compare what my situation is like like… Glassdoor, Rev Gen, or whatever all those sites are like, “What is my life like as an SDR here? And what is it like over there? So like, the grass is greener, conversation comes up more? Because there’s just more information? Because it might actually be great. Yeah, it might be. There, I think there’s also I have found that people are just more comfortable asking for stuff now. Like, you know, not making demands to do this, or I’m ragequitting. But like asking questions, like, why do we do it like this in negotiating, which wasn’t really a thing, at least when I was an SDR? 

Jordan  17:00

If you’re thinking about retention, you know, there’s a couple key themes that I’m picking up from you. One is like, you have to find a way to still capture that environment of like, camaraderie, companionship, whatever, two,, like, you have to have competitive salaries and benefits. And three, it sounds like this, this sounds like almost kind of corny, but I think, yeah, and how do you actually do this well? But three, it sounds like you also need to listen, right? Like, like, be willing to hear feedback. Is there anything else that like, really stands out to you there? Or did I capture that sort of the three main things?

Brooke 17:42

Ah, no, and I think the the listening thing, while it does sound corny, is totally accurate, and that our work environment has changed, like it’s not. In the past, I don’t know if this was even relevant, or like accurate, but there was a mindset of like, I separate my work from my personal life, because I’m physically going into a new building or a new place. So it was like normalized to be like, “Oh, it’s not happening.” Now, over two and a half years into working from home, there is no line. And perhaps there never was before, I’m a proponent of like, you’d have brought your feelings from outside of work into work, or this whole time, we’re just, you know, it’s harder to hide them, because it’s happening in my background of my Zoom. So you have to be willing to have a conversation. And I think employers have had to be more flexible of like, “Look, I can’t be on a team meeting, because I gotta pick up the kids from school, I gotta run to an appointment.” There’s just like things getting in the way and everything is merging together. So being cognizant of that, and listening as an employer to like, here’s what I’m able, you know, here’s the comp plan, or whatever it is that we have from HR, and actually asking with an intent to make a change of like, how does that align with your life or your expectations can be very illuminating. Because there could be some stuff like even return to work, it’s a tough topic of like; I can’t just set a mandate, it’s, I feel like everybody’s in the squishy situation of like, “we’d like you to come in. We can’t force you. But we would really encourage you. But if you don’t, we can’t fire you.” So there’s a lot of like negotiating happening.

Jordan  19:09

And that’s that’s part of what I was saying earlier about, like, in the past, it just was the way it was. All right. And now today, it’s like, you have to listen to the workforce a lot more because, I mean, if you don’t, they’re jumping ship which this like this brings me to my next question. As a, as a company, one of the big concerns and when I worked with different SDRs different plays, it’s always like quota attainment, right? If you don’t hit quota, two months in a row, suddenly you’re on a PIP, you’re on the other end of the PIP like you’re out, right? Well, we have all these high-growth companies that are just desperately trying to hit the number, right, like we got to hit it, we got to hit it for the board for the investors. We want to get series A B, C, D public, whatever. And so like let’s say 10 SALs is is the mark. Okay? But somebody’s getting seven. Okay? The average tenure is like nine months that somebody stays on an SDR floor. So I’m gonna get 777 with this person. Well, in the past, I was probably going to let them go find somebody else, ramp them up. But then I have to wait: month one where they don’t get anything, month two, they’re at like two, month three, they’re finally at six. And then month four they’re getting, maybe they get to seven, maybe they get to 10. Maybe they don’t, right. So like, the pressure there on the company of how do you hold that line of like, you still have to hit your quota? But like seven SALs is today is better than I have to let you go. You know? And then I gotta wait for 1, 2, 3, 4 months to even maybe get that seven SAL back? How do you, how do you handle it?

Brooke 20:55

It’s hard. I’m not a VP of an SDR department; I think a lot of it has to do with the maturity, like the longevity of the company. Like if you are in series A or B or C like that’s just a sacrifice, you have to be willing to make like you hit the number or you don’t. And we’re looking for people who like this type of environment of early-stage startup and like the number is the number. And I’m willing to make the sacrifice. But I think as you get larger, like we’re finding ourselves in the situation now of we, like we had a board member who came talk to us and he’s like, “you’re gonna have to realize it like the the talent pool is not better or worse, it’s just going to be different after becoming a public company, because people are in for a different type of adventure,” like the working 18 hours a day, and harvesting all your own accounts. That’s exciting to some people, but to folks who are joining a publicly-traded company, they’re like, that’s just not the vibe that they’re looking for. And the same thing goes for pressure. So like assessing the growth rate of like, okay, at what point is it unreasonable to double year over year over year, maybe 50% is what we’re looking at. And if we do that, can we set quotas or KPIs or like success metrics in a way that provide more for longevity, because stability is more what we’re looking for versus growth. So I think it has a large part to do with the age of your company and what you’re willing to sacrifice.

Jordan  22:15

This is probably the most excited I’ve been to ask a question in a while. I can’t wait to hear what you say about this. Okay. So based on what you’re telling me right there, right, like, right now, you’re a pre-IPO company; that won’t always be the case. I’m not going to ask you for details. We’re not trying to get you know, hidden information here. But you know, somewhere off in the future, that’s not too far away, you’re going to be suddenly a part of a company that is now post IPO, like that will happen. I used to tell people all the time, if you join this company today, it’s high growth, in six months, you’re gonna work at a different company. Sometimes it was just the next quarter, it was a different company, right? Different stages of growth, different attitudes, different behaviors. So since you’re thinking about enablement from like a programmatic standpoint, how do you today, make sure that you’re like hitting your numbers leading up to that event, but recognizing that once we’re on the other side of the event, our entire team, I’m not saying we need different people, but the attitudes, the adjustments to change? It’s all going to be different to your point. So how do you match today’s world with we need to prep for a different reality and X number of months or years, you know, so on and so forth.

Brooke 23:32

Yeah, I think that’s been one of my, like, most favorite things that I’m learning and enablement, because as a frontline manager, I was so focused on like, what is happening today, am I hitting my number this month, maybe I can think about the quarter. And in enablement, because it’s just me working with the whole SDR team, I really have to zoom out, and I can only, I can only make projects, if I can justify, like, oh, it’s still gonna work in six months or nine months, it’s gonna take me six weeks to build. And it’s gonna be pretty future-proofed. And we do a lot of that through these like maturity models where like you say, here’s where we’re at now, here’s where we would like to be, here’s what we expect to be the case of like, we may have additional products, we may have global teams, we may be working with people in different time zones and making sure that whatever I’m building now, it’s a lot of like, hemming and hawing. Like I think this is where we’re going to be so I’m building this program so that it suits our needs now, but that we can grow into it. If that makes sense. 

Jordan  24:25

Do you have to sit down with like HR and recruiters and and like literally talk about, like when you’re thinking about enablement in six months, like right now, our talent pool what we’re looking for is like these three characteristics, but in nine months, we’re looking for “those” characteristics? Like do you have those conversations? Or is it just something everyone sort of intuitively knows?

Brooke 24:54

We do have those conversations. And I don’t know if it says like, granular is like “Hey, we’re gonna be expecting a dramatic shift in the type of talent that we attract.” But like, for example, if I make a boot camp now, last year, our entire workforce was almost like entirely fresh out of school. And it wasn’t unreasonable to be like I’m in this job for nine months, and I get to be an AE, like before the year is up, because there was that much growth. Now, most of our workforce because the, it’s a crazy climate, have been in SDR before. So they know the drill, they’re going to get hired indirectly and up segment, and realistic, like we just have to set different expectations of like, just because you’ve hit your year mark does not mean a job will pop up, it is totally based on business need. And you may be sitting, you know, for 18 months before an opportunity comes up that you can apply for. So if I’m building a boot camp now I have to think of like how do I make sure that like there are segment nuances for the future, that any promotion paths that we create, don’t have somebody sitting on their hands for like nine months, because they’re like “I was promised a promotion. Now I’m waiting around, I’m gonna rage quit because it’s taking too long.” Like the timing of that has to make sense. And ensuring that like when people start, they know what they’re signing up for, and so that we don’t sell a dream that doesn’t exist anymore.

Jordan  26:10

So this will be my last question. How do you handle disappointment? I think ultimately, you talk about rage quit, right? And I think folks, ultimately, something happens where they get disappointed. My boss didn’t treat me the way I thought they should; I’m not getting paid what I thought. Or like, this is what I saw all the time: “I want to be promoted, and I got passed over. Or they got it and I didn’t, right.” And to your point, there’s certain seasons of a company where you just gotta at the right time, you do your job, everybody gets promoted. Right. And then somebody after them joins, they hear about how all 10 people got promoted? And then they’re like, but where’s my opportunity? Right? And so yeah, whenever somebody gets disappointed, I mean, quite frankly, is that somebody that you’re like, let’s find a way to win them back? Or when someone’s disappointed, sort of that much at the core? Is it kind of like, wow, I think we sort of you sort of burnt the bridge here. What do you do?

Brooke 27:14

Um, I think, being as transparent as you can, because you can’t always tell people everything of like, here’s the deal, like we had a sales leader go out to our London office, and like very, blatantly say, “look, there’s not gonna be any jobs here for six to nine months, I’m telling you this now because I don’t want you to be disappointed when he shows up like he got to buckle up and put your like, I’m going to be the best SDR you can be and then an AE will be here in six months. Or I’m telling you this now so that you can make a decision,” which is, you know, it sounds pretty brutal, but people need to have information. And then they’re going to sit with it for a couple months. But I think you’re right, at some point, like if you’re someone is so upset, that they begin to poison the well and like, become a negative culture detriment. Maybe it is okay to say like, you know what I will happily, Jordan, helped you find a job. This is not the place you want to do it. I feel feel supported. Happy to help you find somewhere. But this is what the situation here.

Jordan  28:09

Even if they to exploit every month, and they’re the person that’s getting the team across the line every time you still say well, maybe it’s, maybe it’s time to go.

Brooke 28:19

If there’s like if there’s nothing if the business is already like, look, the promotion path is the way that it is I can’t just wave a magic wand and make new headcount appear. But yeah, I think that’s a realistic conversation to have with somebody. And if they’re not willing to wait, which is totally reasonable. If they say I am not willing to hang around for six months, I can be an AE tomorrow, then that’s okay. I would honestly rather have that and then be cranky and upset everybody else about like, Oh, this is lame. Nobody who gets promoted here at Outreach is the worst place to work in the whole world. I’ve been sitting here forever type of thing. Yeah. Which I think people need to remember that they have options. You know, it’s not a binary I either get promoted or my job, my life is over. A highly in-demand market. Of course, we want to retain talent, but it’s also like you’re a human and your whole identity is not your job. If you’re not happy here, we’d like to find somewhere that you can’t be, you know,

Jordan  29:13

I’ve actually I found that, that if you if you sort of hold an open-hand mentality of while you’re here, I’m going to help you and then I mean, we’re going to help you if you exit number one, less people actually exit. Like it’s amazing. But number two, folks that leave, they come back like like they know that. Yeah, but they’ll boomerang because they’re like, “Well, you know, look like I tried the grass on the other side. I like fescue. That was bluegrass. I don’t like bluegrass. I’m going back to fescue. Like here we go.” So, yeah, I just think that’s… by the way, I’m from Central Pennsylvania. On, I think one of the other podcasts, we were talking about pulling udders and milking cows. So the so the point we gotta get some type of agricultural comment on here at some point, Brooke. But I think at the end of the day, what I’m hearing from you is like, treat people like people, and you’re going to be better off.

Brooke 30:11

Yeah, like, I can’t hold somebody as a prisoner and expect that they’re going to continue to perform well, like, that’s no way to live your life or to work. People are going to make their own decisions. But I think if you’re really honest, it’s like, “here’s the deal: we think you’re a top performer; you do a lot of great work. But realistically, the headcount could pop up tomorrow; things change all the time, but we’re on track right now for a July hire date. And you can do with that what you want. And if you don’t want to stay here, I’ll help you find something else. But just so you know.

Jordan  30:41

Hey, crew, you heard it from Brooke first. You heard it from Brooke first, the big news on keeping, keeping your talent. I actually thought was really interesting. You know, the manager level just like the individual things that need to happen, but also that enablement layer of, like programmatically, how do we tackle this? So anyway, I thought, some good insight today, Brooke, anything you want to leave people with before we go?

Brooke 31:08

Since we’re talking about hiring, you know, Outreach is hiring SDRs. Would love to onboard you.

Jordan  31:14

You did hear it here first. Outreach is hiring SDRs. You know one of the enablement folks that will treat you well. So there you go. I get a 10% referral. No, I don’t I don’t get a referral fee. I’m kidding. Anyway, thanks for everybody for listening today. Well, we’ll see you later. Thanks, Brooke, for coming.


Hot dog. That was a great episode. Thanks for listening. If you want to learn more about Greaser Consulting or any information you heard on today’s episode, visit us online at www.greaserconsulting.com. Be sure to click the Follow button and the bell icon to be notified on the latest here at RevOps Therapy. Thanks and see you real soon.

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